Newsletter Israel / Palästina

[Kartoffelbrei-Henni]

Ich finde es immer wieder beruhigend, die vielen differenzierten, reflektierten Stimmen hier im Forum zu lesen - auch zu solch schwierigen Themen. Dahingehend bin ich dann schon verwundert, dass dem KuKo nichts Überzeugenderes gelungen ist. Denn der ganze Text hat doch eine ziemliche Schlagseite.

Es kann doch nicht sein, dass an unentschuldbaren Parolen und Haltungen zu diesem Konflikt ("From the river...") herumgedeutelt wird. Natürlich geht es hier zweifelsfrei um die Auslöschung Israels. Punkt.

Es kann auch nicht sein, dass die ekelerregenden Gräuel der Hamas, die der Ausgangspunkt dieses Krieges sind, allenfalls marginal bzw. in zwei Sätzen benannt werden. Dass nicht ein Satz zur Misogynie fällt (ein Begriff, der in diesem Kontext fast harmlos klingt), wurde hier im Forum mehrfach völlig zurecht kritisiert. Wie kann ein feministisches Festival diesen Aspekt so hart ausblenden... Voll daneben.

Und nein: Meine Solidarität gilt nicht per se dem palästinensischen Volk, welches es nicht vermag, sich gegen ein radikal-islamistisches Regime zu erheben, sondern den Feind offenbar immer und immer wieder nur in Israel oder "den Juden" sieht. Mit dieser Erzählung mache ich mich nicht gemein, genauso wie ich mich als Linker nicht einreden lasse, dass ein bisschen Faschismus (für nichts anderes steht Hamas und Konsorten) schon okay wäre, wenn er der vermeintlich richtigen Sache diene.

Es wird mich anekeln, auf der FUSION schambefreite Menschen mit Palitüchern zu sehen, zumal der Festival-Kontext (Stichwort: Massaker von Reʿim) einen völlig unangemessen Rahmen bildet. Derart zweifelhafte Symbole zu verbannen wäre mindestens genauso ein vernünftiges Gebot der sonst so hochgehaltenden Awareness, als dass wir hier ja sonst nackte Männeroberkörper problematieren.

Mein Eindruck: Die Mehrzahl der Fusionists dürfte hier ähnlich progressiv eingestellt sein wie ich und offenbar viel weiter denken, als es der KuKo mit diesem doch sehr schwachen Newsletter zur Sprache gebracht hat.

[strulle]

Naja also wie progressiv deine Haltung ist ,kann man an deinem Text ja messen.

Ich glaube Verbote sind extrem schwierig umzusetzen , auch OKF ist nicht verboten sondern einige Bars bedienen nicht wenn man(n) OKF ankommt.

Wenn man sich vor Augen führt das so ziemlich alle Strömungen der Linken aus so ziemlich ganz Deutschland und teilweise Europa zu dem Festival kommt dann ist der Newsletter doch weniger verwunderlich.

Auch für meinen Geschmack hätten einige Worte klarer fallen können und weniger BlaBla drin stehen können aber es bleibt am Ende ein Kompromiss den einige sicher nicht zu 100% gut finden.

Man wird es wohl ertragen müssen das bei 70.000+ Menschen auch mind. so viele Meinungen vorhanden sind, welche teilweise konträr zur eigenen Stehen. Ambiguität und so.

[LilaMina]

Man wird es wohl ertragen müssen das bei 70.000+ Menschen auch mind. so viele Meinungen vorhanden sind, welche teilweise konträr zur eigenen Stehen. Ambiguität und so.

Misogynie, Antisemitismus, woke Linksgeblubber, das die Gräueltaten der Hamas negieren, verharmlosen, gar negieren und das offen dort kundtun, ist unerträglich. Dann entspricht die Fusion nicht mehr einem safe space und das Konzept geht nicht mehr auf. Dann wird die Fusion vorrangig zur hedonistischen Selbstinszenierung ohne deutlichem Statement.
Um das nicht ertragen zu müssen, bleiben viele weg.
Ich auch.

[ligi]

looking forward to a fusion where people that do not like the diversity are not coming.
I think the newsletter was a great way to behave in this situation.

[Olivetree]

Mega starkes Lied zum Thema:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QbQWtYe194

(Antilopengang - Oktober in Europa)

[mraleki]

Ich finde es immer wieder beruhigend, die vielen differenzierten, reflektierten Stimmen hier im Forum zu lesen - auch zu solch schwierigen Themen. Dahingehend bin ich dann schon verwundert, dass dem KuKo nichts Überzeugenderes gelungen ist. Denn der ganze Text hat doch eine ziemliche Schlagseite.

Es kann doch nicht sein, dass an unentschuldbaren Parolen und Haltungen zu diesem Konflikt ("From the river...") herumgedeutelt wird. Natürlich geht es hier zweifelsfrei um die Auslöschung Israels. Punkt.

Es kann auch nicht sein, dass die ekelerregenden Gräuel der Hamas, die der Ausgangspunkt dieses Krieges sind, allenfalls marginal bzw. in zwei Sätzen benannt werden. Dass nicht ein Satz zur Misogynie fällt (ein Begriff, der in diesem Kontext fast harmlos klingt), wurde hier im Forum mehrfach völlig zurecht kritisiert. Wie kann ein feministisches Festival diesen Aspekt so hart ausblenden... Voll daneben.

Und nein: Meine Solidarität gilt nicht per se dem palästinensischen Volk, welches es nicht vermag, sich gegen ein radikal-islamistisches Regime zu erheben, sondern den Feind offenbar immer und immer wieder nur in Israel oder "den Juden" sieht. Mit dieser Erzählung mache ich mich nicht gemein, genauso wie ich mich als Linker nicht einreden lasse, dass ein bisschen Faschismus (für nichts anderes steht Hamas und Konsorten) schon okay wäre, wenn er der vermeintlich richtigen Sache diene.

Es wird mich anekeln, auf der FUSION schambefreite Menschen mit Palitüchern zu sehen, zumal der Festival-Kontext (Stichwort: Massaker von Reʿim) einen völlig unangemessen Rahmen bildet. Derart zweifelhafte Symbole zu verbannen wäre mindestens genauso ein vernünftiges Gebot der sonst so hochgehaltenden Awareness, als dass wir hier ja sonst nackte Männeroberkörper problematieren.

Mein Eindruck: Die Mehrzahl der Fusionists dürfte hier ähnlich progressiv eingestellt sein wie ich und offenbar viel weiter denken, als es der KuKo mit diesem doch sehr schwachen Newsletter zur Sprache gebracht hat.

I have read the newsletter yesterday and I wasn't going to do anything but boycott fusion for their statement of exclusion of Palestinians and other voices that believe in a Free Palestine and an end to the colonial project on its land
but then I saw your comment and I had to.

Its a typical mindset of an ill informed ignorant racist white liberal thinking they know it all, have the moral high ground looking down on everyone else.

The the slogan "From the river to the sea" is call for Freedom for the Palestinian people on their ancestral land and if the existence if Israel on its current shape and form is on the way of that freedom than that is not a Palestinian problem.

Israel wasn't formed on an empty land that didn't belong to anyone but it was established on Palestinian land, the disgusting balfour declaration says
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
it is clear by that that it is a nation of Palestinians that were given for the colonial project in condition to not do anything for the native non jews but even that wasn't kept by the new colony
JEWISH COLONIAL TRUST , the first Zionist bank. The Jewish Colonial Trust (Juedische Colonial Bank) Ltd. was incorporated in London on March 20, 1899 and from its name the target was as they said it
"To promote, develop, work and carry on industries, undertakings and colonization schemes… migration from or immigration into any country or countries… and in particular of persons of the Jewish race into Palestine, Syria and other countries in the East… To carry on the business of banking so far as… considered expedient incidentally to any other business of the company… To acquire from any state or other authority in any part of the world any concessions, grants, decrees, rights and privileges whatsoever… to seek and obtain openings for the employment of capital in Palestine, Syria and in any part of the world, and, with a view thereto, to prospect, examine, explore, test and develop any mining, landed, agricultural and other properties, and to dispatch and employ expeditions, agents and others."

It is very clear that it was and it still is a colonial project on the land of Palestine, so Israel's existed over stolen Palestinian land, thousands of dead Palestinians and millions of refugees, to deny a Palestinian living in a refugee camp a slogan that calls for his freedom just because the colonizer is hurt is so evil and one sided.

Countries don't have the right to exist, states rise and fall, nothing stays the same but people have the right to exist and the existence of Israel in this shape and form calls for the ethnic cleansing and genocide of Palestinians, and every time someone says Israel has the right to exist they should be questioned how ? how can it exist like this ? what about the land it exists on ? it belongs to the Palestinians ? what about the Palestinians from Yafa Haifa and every other small or large town in so called Israel, can they return to their homes? more than 70% of the population of Gaza is from cities and towns in so called Israel right now, can they go back?

The calling for freedom isn't antisemitic, the Palestinian symbols aren't antisemitic, antisemitism is an evil thing and its existence doessn't justify the denial of Freedom and rights for the Palestinians.
It is Israelis who think that the Palestinian call of liberation and Freedom must be a call for genocide for the Israelis because they have done it to the Palestinians in the 40s at the establishment of Israel they are doing it now, they think that the Palestinians would do to them the exact same things that were done to them, but that is not the case.

There is a colonial occupation of the Palestinian land that must come to an end, there is an apartheid system of dominance subjugating an entire population that must come to an end, there is an ongoing genocide broadcasted live to the entire wild world that must come to an end.

The decision to hold the victims accountable for an imaginary interpretation of a call for freedom is disgusting, tone deaf and racist.

You and the people who made this decision think that you are liberal, care for human rights, the animals and the environment like many other white liberals living in their liberal bubble thinking they are leftists that know it all but you are not.
You are white racist liberals that turn to being fascists as soon as anyone else that doesn't look like you disagrees with you, you turn to censorship to block views that make you feel uncomfortable, views that exposes the hypocrisy of your ethics and standards, then you turn to the police state to do your dirty work.

I have been to fusion for two wonderful times with friends and family, I loved that I was completely myself in a safe loving environment but its not anymore, its an environment that deletes the Palestinian existence, its an environment that accepts the subjugation of the Palestinian people and I don't feel safe in it anymore.
I will not be attending as planned and I will make sure to tell the world about the fake leftist double standards hypocrisy of fusion and the racism I have read and got to know from people who think they are the prime example of liberal who go there.

Germany, Do better ... your guilt doesn't give you the right to do the same mistake again, never again for all people and not just one no matter what they do to others.

[Olivetree]

Ich finde es immer wieder beruhigend, die vielen differenzierten, reflektierten Stimmen hier im Forum zu lesen - auch zu solch schwierigen Themen. Dahingehend bin ich dann schon verwundert, dass dem KuKo nichts Überzeugenderes gelungen ist. Denn der ganze Text hat doch eine ziemliche Schlagseite.

Es kann doch nicht sein, dass an unentschuldbaren Parolen und Haltungen zu diesem Konflikt ("From the river...") herumgedeutelt wird. Natürlich geht es hier zweifelsfrei um die Auslöschung Israels. Punkt.

Es kann auch nicht sein, dass die ekelerregenden Gräuel der Hamas, die der Ausgangspunkt dieses Krieges sind, allenfalls marginal bzw. in zwei Sätzen benannt werden. Dass nicht ein Satz zur Misogynie fällt (ein Begriff, der in diesem Kontext fast harmlos klingt), wurde hier im Forum mehrfach völlig zurecht kritisiert. Wie kann ein feministisches Festival diesen Aspekt so hart ausblenden... Voll daneben.

Und nein: Meine Solidarität gilt nicht per se dem palästinensischen Volk, welches es nicht vermag, sich gegen ein radikal-islamistisches Regime zu erheben, sondern den Feind offenbar immer und immer wieder nur in Israel oder "den Juden" sieht. Mit dieser Erzählung mache ich mich nicht gemein, genauso wie ich mich als Linker nicht einreden lasse, dass ein bisschen Faschismus (für nichts anderes steht Hamas und Konsorten) schon okay wäre, wenn er der vermeintlich richtigen Sache diene.

Es wird mich anekeln, auf der FUSION schambefreite Menschen mit Palitüchern zu sehen, zumal der Festival-Kontext (Stichwort: Massaker von Reʿim) einen völlig unangemessen Rahmen bildet. Derart zweifelhafte Symbole zu verbannen wäre mindestens genauso ein vernünftiges Gebot der sonst so hochgehaltenden Awareness, als dass wir hier ja sonst nackte Männeroberkörper problematieren.

Mein Eindruck: Die Mehrzahl der Fusionists dürfte hier ähnlich progressiv eingestellt sein wie ich und offenbar viel weiter denken, als es der KuKo mit diesem doch sehr schwachen Newsletter zur Sprache gebracht hat.

I have read the newsletter yesterday and I wasn't going to do anything but boycott fusion for their statement of exclusion of Palestinians and other voices that believe in a Free Palestine and an end to the colonial project on its land
but then I saw your comment and I had to

its a typical mindset of an ill informed ignorant racist white liberal thinking they know it all, have the moral high ground looking down on everyone else.

to begin, the the slogan "From the river to the sea" is call for Freedom for the Palestinian people on their ancestral land and if the existence if Israel on its current shape and form is on the way of that freedom than that is not a Palestinian problem.

Israel wasn't formed on an empty land that didn't belong to anyone but it was established on Palestinian land, the disgusting balfour declaration says
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
it is clear by that that it is a nation of Palestinians that were given for the colonial project in condition to not do anything for the native non jews but even that wasn't kept by the new colony
JEWISH COLONIAL TRUST , the first Zionist bank. The Jewish Colonial Trust (Juedische Colonial Bank) Ltd. was incorporated in London on March 20, 1899 and from its name the target was as they said it
"To promote, develop, work and carry on industries, undertakings and colonization schemes… migration from or immigration into any country or countries… and in particular of persons of the Jewish race into Palestine, Syria and other countries in the East… To carry on the business of banking so far as… considered expedient incidentally to any other business of the company… To acquire from any state or other authority in any part of the world any concessions, grants, decrees, rights and privileges whatsoever… to seek and obtain openings for the employment of capital in Palestine, Syria and in any part of the world, and, with a view thereto, to prospect, examine, explore, test and develop any mining, landed, agricultural and other properties, and to dispatch and employ expeditions, agents and others."

it is very clear that it was and it still is a colonial project on the land of Palestine
so Israel's existed over stolen Palestinian land, thousands of dead Palestinians and millions of refugees, to deny a Palestinian living in a refugee camp a slogan that calls for his freedom just because the colonizer is hurt is so evil and one sided

countries don't have the right to exist, states rise and fall, nothing stays the same but people have the right to exist and the existence of Israel in this shape and form calls for the ethnic cleansing and genocide of Palestinians, and every time someone says Israel has the right to exist they should be questioned how ? how can it exist like this ? what about the land it exists on ? it belongs to the Palestinians ? what about the Palestinians from Yafa Haifa and every other small or large town in so called Israel, can they return to their homes? more than 70% of the population of Gaza is from cities and towns in so called Israel right now, can they go back ?

the calling for freedom isn't antisemitic, the Palestinian symbols aren't antisemitic, antisemitism is an evil thing and its existence doessn't justify the denial of Freedom and rights for the Palestinians.
it is Israelis who think that the Palestinian call of liberation and Freedom must be a call for genocide for the Israelis because they have done it to the Palestinians in the 40s at the establishment of Israel they are doing it now, they think that the Palestinians would do to them the exact same things that were done to them, but that is not the case.

there is a colonial occupation of the Palestinian land that must come to an end, there is an apartheid system of dominance subjugating an entire population that must come to an end, there is an ongoing genocide broadcasted live to the entire wild world that must come to an end.

the decision to hold the victims accountable for an imaginary interpretation of a call for freedom is disgusting, tone deaf and racist.

you and the people who made this decision think that you are liberal, care for human rights, the animals and the environment like many other white liberals living in their liberal bubble thinking they are leftists that know it all but you are not
you are white racist liberals that turn to being fascists as soon as anyone else that doesn't look like you disagrees with you, you turn to censorship to block views that make you feel uncomfortable, views that exposes the hypocrisy of your ethics and standards, then you turn to the police state to do your dirty work.

I have been to fusion for two wonderful times with friends and family, I loved that I was completely myself in a safe loving environment but its not anymore, its an environment that deletes the Palestinian existence, its an environment that accepts the subjugation of the Palestinian people and I don't feel safe in it anymore.
I will not be attending as planned and I will make sure to tell the world about the fake leftist double standards hypocrisy of fusion and the racism I have read and got to know from people who think they are the prime example of liberal who go there

Germany, Do better ... your guilt doesn't give you the right to do the same mistake again, never again for all people and not just one no matter what they do to others

We've seenon 7th Oct what "free palestine" means. And you advocating for the destruction of Israel and cleansing of the jews from "your" land and by that advocating for a new Holocaust, while you are calling anybody who has not your optinion "racist". Funny thing, because the only one who mentions colours is you. Please stay away this years or maybe forever, thx.

[mraleki]

We've seenon 7th Oct what "free palestine" means. And you advocating for the destruction of Israel and cleansing of the jews from "your" land and by that advocating for a new Holocaust, while you are calling anybody who has not your optinion "racist". Funny thing, because the only one who mentions colours is you. Please stay away this years or maybe forever, thx.

History and Timeline didn't start at October 7, and if you are going to deny the Freedom for a whole population based upon the events of one day then it shows what you stand for, the dehumanization of Palestinians and the disregard for their basic human rights.

I haven't called for the cleansing of anyone, it's an Israeli thing and they assume that everyone will do to them the exact same things they do to Palestinians.
Germans did the holocaust not the Palestinians, the Palestinians are suffering from colonialization, apartheid, ethnic cleansing and genocide but then you bring the holocaust as a scare tactic to deny any speech about Palestinian Freedom.

We Have seen what "The children of light" "Western values" "Israel has the right to defend itself" has done and continues to do every day for the past 76 + years and counting, and when you take only that side with no regards to the victims from the other side then yes it is racism because two humans don't have the same value and one is better than the other in your eyes no matter what they do.

Don't worry I will not come, I don't feel safe in this environment as long as Palestinians are denied the basic human right to call for their freedom and to be Free, as long as their lives don't have the same value as other.

[Olivetree]

We've seenon 7th Oct what "free palestine" means. And you advocating for the destruction of Israel and cleansing of the jews from "your" land and by that advocating for a new Holocaust, while you are calling anybody who has not your optinion "racist". Funny thing, because the only one who mentions colours is you. Please stay away this years or maybe forever, thx.

History and Timeline didn't start at October 7, and if you are going to deny the Freedom for a whole population based upon the events of one day then it shows what you stand for, the dehumanization of Palestinians and the disregard for their basic human rights.

I haven't called for the cleansing of anyone, it's an Israeli thing and they assume that everyone will do to them the exact same things they do to Palestinians.
Germans did the holocaust not the Palestinians, the Palestinians are suffering from colonialization, apartheid, ethnic cleansing and genocide but then you bring the holocaust as a scare tactic to deny any speech about Palestinian Freedom.

We Have seen what "The children of light" "Western values" "Israel has the right to defend itself" has done and continues to do every day for the past 76 + years and counting, and when you take only that side with no regards to the victims from the other side then yes it is racism because two humans don't have the same value and one is better than the other in your eyes no matter what they do.

Don't worry I will not come, I don't feel safe in this environment as long as Palestinians are denied the basic human right to call for their freedom and to be Free, as long as their lives don't have the same value as other.

Just to get some facts straight:

- it is NOT palestine or islamic land, the jews have been there long before Islam appeared
- the term of nowadays "Palestine" and "Palestinians" were an invention of militant islamic terrorists in the 1960s and a direct consequence of Israels occupation of arabic land after they had been attacked by their arab neighbours several times
- 1.7 million palestinians live in Israel mostly peaceful
- thousands of Gazains travelled each day to Israel for work
- Israeli state build and financed nearly all infrastrucure in Gaza, while Hamas build tunnels and weapons and financed escort girls and 5* hotels in Dubai for their bigot leaders
- Israeli companies invested heavily in Gaza and employed thousands of Palestinians there
- Hamas is a radical islamo-facsists organisation with a clear and stated goal to destroy Israel
- Gaza was never a "concentration camp" or open air prison

Hamas killed, raped, mutilated Israeli children, women and men in the most-horrific ways on 7th Oct - there is NOT a single justification for this! Hamas could've also surrendered and turned over the hostages long ago, but they need this war to get people like you spread their propaganda and play the victim card. And no-one is silencing any critic of Israeli actions in Gaza. But your "freedom" and chants like "from the river to the sea" is clearly aimed to wipe Israel of the map. It has nothing to do with palestine freedom, it is pure, anti-semitic hate.

And stop calling people racists...

[mraleki]

Just to get some facts straight:

- it is NOT palestine or islamic land, the jews have been there long before Islam appeared
- the term of nowadays "Palestine" and "Palestinians" were an invention of militant islamic terrorists in the 1960s and a direct consequence of Israels occupation of arabic land after they had been attacked by their arab neighbours several times
- 1.7 million palestinians live in Israel mostly peaceful
- thousands of Gazains travelled each day to Israel for work
- Israeli state build and financed nearly all infrastrucure in Gaza, while Hamas build tunnels and weapons and financed escort girls and 5* hotels in Dubai for their bigot leaders
- Israeli companies invested heavily in Gaza and employed thousands of Palestinians there
- Hamas is a radical islamo-facsists organisation with a clear and stated goal to destroy Israel
- Gaza was never a "concentration camp" or open air prison

Hamas killed, raped, mutilated Israeli children, women and men in the most-horrific ways on 7th Oct - there is NOT a single justification for this! Hamas could've also surrendered and turned over the hostages long ago, but they need this war to get people like you spread their propaganda and play the victim card. And no-one is silencing any critic of Israeli actions in Gaza. But your "freedom" and chants like "from the river to the sea" is clearly aimed to wipe Israel of the map. It has nothing to do with palestine freedom, it is pure, anti-semitic hate.

And stop calling people racists...

Its funny how you throw the word facts and ignore every other evidence in the world that you don't like, and since you are doing so I will hold you accountable

-The Jews were there for so many years before and after Islam but they weren't the only ones there and this is where we differ, you think they have the sole ownership of the land based upon religious biblical promise from "God" even though that land has been inhabited even before they even went there.
-The word Palestine wasn't invented in the 60s but derives from Philistia, the name given by Greek writers to the land of the Philistines, it is there in the old testament, a few thousand years old, and it represent the people who live there like so many other terms for example
"Canaanites" who were there even before the Jews.
-Millions in Gaza are under occupation as per international law, they are living basically in concentration camp, no one and nothing goes in or out without Israeli approval, they have no control over their borders from land or sea
-Again, Israel is an occupying force and they have responsibility for the people they occupy, so stop with this Dubai/ investment bullshit
-Hamas got funding and got empowered by netanyahu to weaken the Palestinian authority, hamas doesn't exist in the west band but still there is colonization, occupation and apartheid.
-Gaza is a concentration camp, 70% of its population are refuges from ethnically cleansed cities and towns in now so called Israel and Israel controls everything that goes in and out and apparently can do an ongoing genocide for 6 months with the support of racist people like you.